Anita McBride is a leading expert on first ladies and the White House. She sits on the White House Historical Association Board of Directors and leads the Legacies of America’s First Ladies Initiative at American University, where she is Executive in Residence. Her White House career spans 30 years and four administrations, including roles as Assistant to President George W. Bush and Chief of Staff to First Lady Laura Bush. She has co-authored three books on first ladies, including a college textbook and a children’s book highlighting their impact on politics, policy, and diplomacy.
Diana B. Carlin is professor emerita of communication at Saint Louis University and a founding member of the First Ladies Association for Research and Education. She teaches the history of first ladies at American University. Her recent books include U.S. First Ladies: Making History and Leaving Legacies (2023) and Remember the First Ladies: The Legacies of America’s History-Making Women (2024). She has also written chapters on first ladies from Martha Washington to Michelle Obama, and her work covers women in politics, presidential communication, and political debates.
Jack DiPrimio: Professor Carlin, given your expertise on the White House and the history of First Ladies, do you see the demolition of the East Wing as an unprecedented act? How does this renovation compare to projects like the Truman Reconstruction or the Kennedy Restoration?
Diana Carlin: Yes, this is unprecedented. An entire wing has been removed. Truman gutted the interior of the White House because it was structurally unsound, but he preserved the exterior walls. That crisis resulted from poorly supported attic additions during the Coolidge era and years of underfunding. Some in Congress wanted to demolish the building entirely, but Truman insisted on saving it. Mrs. Kennedy’s restoration did not alter the structure; she focused on historical authenticity. Earlier changes, like Roosevelt’s West Wing or FDR’s East Wing addition, expanded the house. This is the first time a section has actually been removed.
JD: Typically, White House renovations do not involve tearing things down unless it is absolutely necessary for safety?
DC: Exactly. Truman’s work was essential to prevent collapse. His team replaced wooden supports with steel and ensured long-term stability. Today’s controversy comes partly from communication. The public was told demolition would not occur, so when the walls came down, it caused confusion and mistrust.
JD: Congress had to approve Truman’s changes? Was that always the case?
DC: At that time, yes. There was no private funding, so everything relied on Congress, which often underfunded maintenance. Jacqueline Kennedy changed that by creating the White House Historical Association (WHHA) to raise private funds for preservation, and First Ladies—like Lady Bird Johnson and Pat Nixon—continued the tradition.
Anita McBride: Private money has funded White House restoration since 1961. The Association exists to preserve art, furniture, and history free from government interference. It does not control construction, but it safeguards the collection and raises funds transparently through a 501(c)(3) structure.
JD: Mrs. Kennedy really started the tradition of private fundraising for White House preservation?
DC: Yes. She established the White House Historical Association specifically for that purpose.
JD: Did she and subsequent First Ladies consider the ethical implications of relying on private funding for the White House?
DC: They did. The Association must report who donates, how much is donated, and how funds are used. Jackie Kennedy ensured her restoration was funded through private donations dedicated only to preservation and education. Pat Nixon later relied on a similar model for artifact and monetary gifts.
JD: Is there any law that dictates how White House restorations should be handled, or is it mostly up to each administration?
AM: The White House is exempt from many federal building codes. In 1966, President Johnson signed the National Historic Preservation Act, which exempted the mansion from normal review processes. It also created the Committee for the Preservation of the White House, but final decisions rest with the president.
DC: That exemption gives presidents broad discretion, especially when using private funds. Jackie Kennedy wanted independence from Congress, knowing lawmakers would not allocate enough money.
JD: Before her reforms, was it common for historical artifacts to be lost between administrations? And how does the White House Historical Association handle preservation today?
AM: Before Mrs. Kennedy, presidents could sell or discard furniture at will. She created the curator position and the WHHA to stop that. Today, every item—art, portraits, and furniture—is catalogued and conserved.
DC: Before demolition, everything from the East Wing was photographed and stored. There is now a complete digital archive, and no significant artifacts were lost. Some confusion arose because people believed the East Room was destroyed, but it is part of the main mansion and untouched.
JD: Traditionally, have First Ladies led White House renovations, or have presidents also taken active roles? Has any president been as directly involved in building projects as Donald Trump is with this ballroom?
DC: The First Lady has no official duties. Some take an interest, others do not. Presidents have always played roles. After the 1814 fire, both the President and Mrs. Monroe led the rebuilding. FDR added a bunker and a second floor to the East Wing. The Trumans worked together closely. Bess Truman helped convince Congress to preserve the outer walls and later joined her husband for a televised tour of the renovated home.
AM: Eleanor Roosevelt’s staff worked in the East Wing after FDR’s expansion, but before that, First Ladies managed duties from the family quarters. Rosalynn Carter was the first to have a full-time office there.
JD: Does Melania Trump’s approach to the role represent a return to earlier, less visible First Ladies?
DC: Visibility and activity are not the same. Pat Nixon, for example, traveled extensively and addressed foreign parliaments but received little coverage. Jackie Kennedy was highly visible but rarely spoke publicly. Mrs. Trump has done more than people realize. She has worked on AI education, helped pass the Take It Down Act on revenge porn, and hosted roundtables with survivors. Dr. Jill Biden was equally active, but media coverage often focuses on missteps rather than substance.
AM: There is also no dedicated press corps for First Ladies. Jennifer Taylor founded East Wing Magazine to fill that gap. Public visibility often depends on how much the West Wing promotes a First Lady’s work.
JD: Do you think that is what is happening with Mrs. Trump, that the West Wing prefers she stay out of the spotlight?
DC: It is hard to know right now. That will become clearer to historians later.
JD: Where will the First Lady and her staff work now that the East Wing is gone?
DC: Some staff have moved to offices on the main floor, and others are in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building. The First Lady can also work from the private quarters, as many have before. Reports suggest the new addition will include staff offices and possibly guest rooms, though that is not confirmed.
JD: What do you see as the main benefits and risks of the new renovation?
DC: The benefit is space. The White House’s event capacity is small—about 200 people—so administrations spend millions on temporary tents that damage the lawn. A permanent ballroom makes sense. The risk is communication. People were not clearly told what was happening or how preservation was handled. Transparency prevents controversy.
AM: From a design perspective, proportion matters. The White House is admired for its human scale. It is elegant but not palatial. A new structure should complement, not overwhelm, that balance.
JD: It is striking that demolition continues during the government shutdown. Are you worried the new ballroom might overshadow the White House and make it feel more like a palace than a home?
DC: The founders wanted a dignified residence, not a royal palace. Visitors are often surprised by its modest size. Caroline Harrison once proposed massive additions, but Congress rejected them as too grand. That restraint has long defined the White House’s identity. The new ballroom will expand the total space from 55,000 to about 90,000 square feet. It is a significant change, but all major renovations, from Truman’s rebuild to Kennedy’s restoration, faced backlash at first. Over time, people adjust.
JD: To clarify, what exactly was preserved from the East Wing?
AM: Portraits, especially of First Ladies, were photographed, conserved, and stored. Furniture and other artifacts were removed and protected. Even without demolition, proximity to construction would have required this. The White House’s collection is vast, and rotation is normal.
DC: There is now a complete photographic record of the East Wing interior. Nothing historically significant was lost.
JD: Why does private funding play such a central role, and how is it managed?
AM: Government funding alone cannot sustain the White House as both a home and a museum. The WHHA raises private money transparently and ensures it is used only for preservation and education.
DC: The ballroom’s funding likely comes through a separate entity, not the WHHA. But private support for restoration has existed for more than 60 years, and nonprofit standards ensure accountability.
JD: What is the best way for the White House to avoid controversy around projects like this in the future?
DC: Openness. Leaders should clearly explain why a renovation is needed, how it is paid for, and how artifacts are protected. Share renderings, timelines, and funding details. Jackie Kennedy’s restoration succeeded because she explained it as a scholarship, a way to preserve national history.
AM: Transparency and education go hand in hand. The Association’s new “People’s House” exhibit, a digital interactive experience with a full-scale replica of the Oval Office, helps visitors understand preservation and change as parts of the same story.
JD: And finally, based on your research and experience, what principles should guide future renovations so the building meets modern needs without losing its history?
DC: Communicate early, often, and honestly. The White House belongs to the people. Every major change should be explained and documented to build trust.
AM: Preserve its proportions, protect its collections, and never lose sight of its purpose—to tell the nation’s story, one generation at a time.
JD: Thank you both for your insight into how preservation, policy, and transparency intersect in the people’s house.
*This interview was edited for length and clarity.